snathan
06-17 09:31 PM
Below are some links for those who are looking for visa stamping related 'disaster' stories.... I think this is a lost cause since the DOS/DHS really does not care...justice and fairness is probably not in their dictionary.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18760
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19066
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=270800#post270800
http://murthyforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=1024039761&f=4724019812&m=772108581&p=57
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=50933335266
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pd-XmqrjF_Zob58NgG0GjWg&output=html
If possible contact those affected members and spread this news. We can draft a letter along with their stories and send it to all media and congressmen, DOS officials.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18760
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19066
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?p=270800#post270800
http://murthyforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=1024039761&f=4724019812&m=772108581&p=57
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=50933335266
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pd-XmqrjF_Zob58NgG0GjWg&output=html
If possible contact those affected members and spread this news. We can draft a letter along with their stories and send it to all media and congressmen, DOS officials.
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eb3_nepa
02-20 10:47 PM
Mercies,
We appreciate ur apprehension, but please do not sow unnecessary seeds of doubt. As it is, making most legal immigrants take part in this struggle, is like milking a male buffalo.
If you feel that these efforts are being wasted, then you are free to watch from the sidelines. Pls do not take this as a personal attack on u, but you are one of many many such immigrants who are sitting on this fence.
Regarding the professionalism shown by people here, i would really ask you not to attack without fully understanding the efforts taken by people who have formed this group. People have been travelling back and forth to DC to try and establish a lobbyist firm. Instead of criticizing please do your part by helping and doing something.
People have been approaching their communities for help, researching pro-immigrant organizations and working with them to get support. Even arranging for news sites to do something for us.
Please, we urge you not to sow seeds of doubt.
We appreciate ur apprehension, but please do not sow unnecessary seeds of doubt. As it is, making most legal immigrants take part in this struggle, is like milking a male buffalo.
If you feel that these efforts are being wasted, then you are free to watch from the sidelines. Pls do not take this as a personal attack on u, but you are one of many many such immigrants who are sitting on this fence.
Regarding the professionalism shown by people here, i would really ask you not to attack without fully understanding the efforts taken by people who have formed this group. People have been travelling back and forth to DC to try and establish a lobbyist firm. Instead of criticizing please do your part by helping and doing something.
People have been approaching their communities for help, researching pro-immigrant organizations and working with them to get support. Even arranging for news sites to do something for us.
Please, we urge you not to sow seeds of doubt.
rvr_jcop
02-14 11:42 AM
I got LUDs on 2/10 on both mine and my wife's 485. My wife got an RFE email on 02/13. I do not know what this means either...
Looks like lot of EB-3 applications who filed 485 at the end of june got LUDs last week, some with RFE and some just soft LUD.
I got LUD on 2/10 for both my 485 and my wife's 485., though no RFE so far.
Looks like lot of EB-3 applications who filed 485 at the end of june got LUDs last week, some with RFE and some just soft LUD.
I got LUD on 2/10 for both my 485 and my wife's 485., though no RFE so far.
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jsb
04-20 11:43 AM
I will be sending the following note to my senator and have already posted it to WhiteHouse.gov. I urge all those screwed by the ongoing retrogression to do the same.
"I am writing to inform you of how the country based quotas imposed on Employment Based green cards are unfair and totally illogical. When I immigrated to the US, I believed that this country was a meritocracy where you were judged based on your abilities and qualities. These country based quotas reward people depending on where they or their ancestors were born. This causes people from India and China to wait over a decade to get a green card whereas someone from another country with similar or lesser abilities can obtain permanent residence in half that time.
Since these EB category based green cards are awarded for professional skills, imposing a country based quota just does not make any sense. I urge you to work with Congress and change this discriminatory policy and reinforce that America is truly a society that celebrates meritocracy."
It is very good, brief and to the point. Just a little comment. Expand EB to Employment Based, and "half that time" to "fraction of that time". Also, add a sentence making reference to lost visas due to USCIS inefficiency (which has a greater chance of getting through) to be captured and used.
Must be posted in a very large number to get attention.
"I am writing to inform you of how the country based quotas imposed on Employment Based green cards are unfair and totally illogical. When I immigrated to the US, I believed that this country was a meritocracy where you were judged based on your abilities and qualities. These country based quotas reward people depending on where they or their ancestors were born. This causes people from India and China to wait over a decade to get a green card whereas someone from another country with similar or lesser abilities can obtain permanent residence in half that time.
Since these EB category based green cards are awarded for professional skills, imposing a country based quota just does not make any sense. I urge you to work with Congress and change this discriminatory policy and reinforce that America is truly a society that celebrates meritocracy."
It is very good, brief and to the point. Just a little comment. Expand EB to Employment Based, and "half that time" to "fraction of that time". Also, add a sentence making reference to lost visas due to USCIS inefficiency (which has a greater chance of getting through) to be captured and used.
Must be posted in a very large number to get attention.
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Alabaman
09-14 03:22 PM
I have several friends who were waiting for GC desparately and they thought it was the final destination. They had many reasons why to get GC and once they get, they will be free and can do / will do everything possible. But, once they got it, they settled in a permanent job. Without GC, they were working for the same client with even more pay and life was good if not better.
I was thinking the same way; because I am no different.
Oflate, I realised, I am un-necessarily worried about something which is not in my control. I realised that I am well paid, with this pay even the benefits I am not getting are compensated. Why am I worried? Should I be after GC in order to get peace of mind? I started looking it little differently. I am in this country to earn more money and live comfortably. I am already enjoying what I wanted. Then, why am I worried still? May be it is in human nature to always look for something which is not in the hands.
I still need GC for other things like Children education and get some other benefits (our education / starting business etc). I agree, but there is lot of time for that in my case. There are several people who are in the same state as me if not all. Everyone's needs are different.
I thought I will just share my ideas so that atleast some of the people will be happier.
So what are your ideas?
I was thinking the same way; because I am no different.
Oflate, I realised, I am un-necessarily worried about something which is not in my control. I realised that I am well paid, with this pay even the benefits I am not getting are compensated. Why am I worried? Should I be after GC in order to get peace of mind? I started looking it little differently. I am in this country to earn more money and live comfortably. I am already enjoying what I wanted. Then, why am I worried still? May be it is in human nature to always look for something which is not in the hands.
I still need GC for other things like Children education and get some other benefits (our education / starting business etc). I agree, but there is lot of time for that in my case. There are several people who are in the same state as me if not all. Everyone's needs are different.
I thought I will just share my ideas so that atleast some of the people will be happier.
So what are your ideas?
nilcritz
12-20 01:32 PM
Hi everyone,
I read the memo in details as it directly applies to my wife's ability to work and my ability to extend H1. Here is the analysis (I have excluded L visa part). But before that, I would like to acknowledge the works of this "the" person. They dont know how much their post means to others. Thank you so much for digging this out.
1) Husband H1, wife H4 (or vice versa) in 7th year. Wife can now work on a new H1. Her H1 will be valid for a new six year period. She can start work on 1st October 2007 if this is her first H1 and is aproved.
2) If wife had old H1, and say she worked for 1 year and stopped after completing 6 years on H1+H4. She can now transfer old H1 and work for 5 more years.
3) Say, wife starts work and husband loses job. Wife is now H1 and husband is on H4 - they can continue like this till wife's H1 validity period or till the family's GC is approved.
4) Husband H1 + wife H4 in 7th year (assuming GC in progress) and leave the country and stay outside USA. Husband gets transfer back to USA OR gets a new job in USA. Husaband or wife not in any H or L status at this time. They can still use the old H1 and GC process dates to get H1 extension for old H1.
5) H1 employee worked for 2 years and left USA. At any time (not just October), he can use old H1 for transfer and continue for 4 more years OR he can opt for a new 6 year period after 1 year stay outside USA.
Other provisions are for L1/L2 (which I skipped) and for preventing fraud when a person gets H1 and parks his family in US but the person remains outside USA. The memo states that H4 members should be in USA only to accompany the H1 member (provided H1 is in USA and in valid state).
Hope this helps to all. If you have read the memo and if you have anything to add please do so. This is probably the only positive news for H1, H4, GC this year.
I read the memo in details as it directly applies to my wife's ability to work and my ability to extend H1. Here is the analysis (I have excluded L visa part). But before that, I would like to acknowledge the works of this "the" person. They dont know how much their post means to others. Thank you so much for digging this out.
1) Husband H1, wife H4 (or vice versa) in 7th year. Wife can now work on a new H1. Her H1 will be valid for a new six year period. She can start work on 1st October 2007 if this is her first H1 and is aproved.
2) If wife had old H1, and say she worked for 1 year and stopped after completing 6 years on H1+H4. She can now transfer old H1 and work for 5 more years.
3) Say, wife starts work and husband loses job. Wife is now H1 and husband is on H4 - they can continue like this till wife's H1 validity period or till the family's GC is approved.
4) Husband H1 + wife H4 in 7th year (assuming GC in progress) and leave the country and stay outside USA. Husband gets transfer back to USA OR gets a new job in USA. Husaband or wife not in any H or L status at this time. They can still use the old H1 and GC process dates to get H1 extension for old H1.
5) H1 employee worked for 2 years and left USA. At any time (not just October), he can use old H1 for transfer and continue for 4 more years OR he can opt for a new 6 year period after 1 year stay outside USA.
Other provisions are for L1/L2 (which I skipped) and for preventing fraud when a person gets H1 and parks his family in US but the person remains outside USA. The memo states that H4 members should be in USA only to accompany the H1 member (provided H1 is in USA and in valid state).
Hope this helps to all. If you have read the memo and if you have anything to add please do so. This is probably the only positive news for H1, H4, GC this year.
more...
kumar1
08-19 09:02 PM
I can give you my example. 10 years in the US and got greened yesterday. Background -
B. Tech. from IIT - 1999. Always believed in hard work and dedication.
2000/2001 - Came to the US
2003 - Filed labor - RIR - EB3
2004 - job loss
2004 - Joined so called fortune 500 company with 15000 + employees and presence in 50 countries. They promised but never filed GC.
2005 - Filed Canada PR.
2005 - Quit and joined Desi company. Started GC process on day-1.
2005- Filed under Perm EB-3 (lawyer screwed). Got approved in 3 months.
2006 - Filed I-140 got approved in 3 weeks.
2007 - July Fiasco and filed I-485. Got AP, EAD. Wife started to work.
2008 - EB-3 sucked so talked to employer to file in EB-2. Desi company did not care as long as I paid for it.
2009 - Filed labor, got approved in 6 months.
2009 - Filed EB2 I-140 and requested to re-capture the PD of first labor.
2009 - I-140 approved, same day saw an LUD on pending I-485. Also, approved I-140 came with A# and EB-3 labor PD.
2009 - Bought a home.
2010 - July, dates became current.
Opened SR, got a response that my case is still in EB3. NSC sucks.
Asked lawyer to send letter to USCIS. He did, nothing happened.
Contacted senator and they opened up a congressional request with USCIS.
Within 2 days, USCIS issued RFE about incomplete medical. It was total BS.
Contacted doctor and got chest X-Ray and replied RFE.
Took several Inforpass appointments.
EAD expired, did everything but could not get renewed on time.
Did not tell anything to HR about expired EAD, both kept mum and kept working.
Had fights at DMV to get DL extended.
Aug-17th, GC got approved.
Is this all worth it? I do not know. Only reason I joined desi company with 2 employees is that desi company was ready to file GC on day-1. I have seen so called Fortune-xx companies. They lied to me.
Overall - I am a happy person. Would continue with Desi employer for some more time.
Now that we have GC, I would like to -
1. Spend more time with family and not worry about LIN-XXXX numbers.
2. Think about doing MBA.
3. Move to a warmer place like CA.
Good Luck. I would suggest - Talk to your employer and explain your situation. You have nothing to lose.
B. Tech. from IIT - 1999. Always believed in hard work and dedication.
2000/2001 - Came to the US
2003 - Filed labor - RIR - EB3
2004 - job loss
2004 - Joined so called fortune 500 company with 15000 + employees and presence in 50 countries. They promised but never filed GC.
2005 - Filed Canada PR.
2005 - Quit and joined Desi company. Started GC process on day-1.
2005- Filed under Perm EB-3 (lawyer screwed). Got approved in 3 months.
2006 - Filed I-140 got approved in 3 weeks.
2007 - July Fiasco and filed I-485. Got AP, EAD. Wife started to work.
2008 - EB-3 sucked so talked to employer to file in EB-2. Desi company did not care as long as I paid for it.
2009 - Filed labor, got approved in 6 months.
2009 - Filed EB2 I-140 and requested to re-capture the PD of first labor.
2009 - I-140 approved, same day saw an LUD on pending I-485. Also, approved I-140 came with A# and EB-3 labor PD.
2009 - Bought a home.
2010 - July, dates became current.
Opened SR, got a response that my case is still in EB3. NSC sucks.
Asked lawyer to send letter to USCIS. He did, nothing happened.
Contacted senator and they opened up a congressional request with USCIS.
Within 2 days, USCIS issued RFE about incomplete medical. It was total BS.
Contacted doctor and got chest X-Ray and replied RFE.
Took several Inforpass appointments.
EAD expired, did everything but could not get renewed on time.
Did not tell anything to HR about expired EAD, both kept mum and kept working.
Had fights at DMV to get DL extended.
Aug-17th, GC got approved.
Is this all worth it? I do not know. Only reason I joined desi company with 2 employees is that desi company was ready to file GC on day-1. I have seen so called Fortune-xx companies. They lied to me.
Overall - I am a happy person. Would continue with Desi employer for some more time.
Now that we have GC, I would like to -
1. Spend more time with family and not worry about LIN-XXXX numbers.
2. Think about doing MBA.
3. Move to a warmer place like CA.
Good Luck. I would suggest - Talk to your employer and explain your situation. You have nothing to lose.
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syzygy
06-05 11:41 AM
It looks like USCIS can make any new laws or change rules of game anytime. They live by their will.
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kaisersose
08-24 10:55 AM
Can you vote as a GC applicant or even a permanent resident? NO
You would think you could influence the Americans to support your cause and vote accordingly in the elections. FORGET IT!! Let alone the 2nd, 3rd, 4th.......17th generation American citizens, even the recently naturalized immigrants don't give a crap about us immigrants. The media and the politicians just have a field time with the immigrants (both legal and illegal) and some ignorant and dumb Americans (who don't usually vote) who get easily carried away by the emotions played both for and against immigration.
The serious voters (this has been established by several polls) however, are quite aware that immigrants are not given relief and naturalized overnight and are obviously confident that it could take around 20 years for any immigrant to get naturalized. The issues for these serious voters are: Iraq war, economy (the dwindling housing market?), globalization, gay marriage, abortion, and imports from China.
I wish good luck for IV and all those participating at the DC rally. NO, I can't make it, I am sorry.
A very pessimistic and inaccurate outlook.
If this was indeed true, there would have been no Ac21 act back in 2000. No PERM system would have been created to replace the cranky RIR system. The July 2007 visa bulletin would not have been reversed. Just look back at the last 10 years and see how many changes have happened in the system. Believe me, if apathy was their attitude, they would not have implemented any of the above and their inaction would not have impacted them in any way.
Having said that, I must also caution some over-enthusiastic people who believe a walk in DC will solve all their immigration problems. We all certainly hope something will happen, but we should not be distraught if nothing happens. We just need to keep pushing instead of talking on a defeatist attitude due to setting wrong expectations out of one single rally.
You would think you could influence the Americans to support your cause and vote accordingly in the elections. FORGET IT!! Let alone the 2nd, 3rd, 4th.......17th generation American citizens, even the recently naturalized immigrants don't give a crap about us immigrants. The media and the politicians just have a field time with the immigrants (both legal and illegal) and some ignorant and dumb Americans (who don't usually vote) who get easily carried away by the emotions played both for and against immigration.
The serious voters (this has been established by several polls) however, are quite aware that immigrants are not given relief and naturalized overnight and are obviously confident that it could take around 20 years for any immigrant to get naturalized. The issues for these serious voters are: Iraq war, economy (the dwindling housing market?), globalization, gay marriage, abortion, and imports from China.
I wish good luck for IV and all those participating at the DC rally. NO, I can't make it, I am sorry.
A very pessimistic and inaccurate outlook.
If this was indeed true, there would have been no Ac21 act back in 2000. No PERM system would have been created to replace the cranky RIR system. The July 2007 visa bulletin would not have been reversed. Just look back at the last 10 years and see how many changes have happened in the system. Believe me, if apathy was their attitude, they would not have implemented any of the above and their inaction would not have impacted them in any way.
Having said that, I must also caution some over-enthusiastic people who believe a walk in DC will solve all their immigration problems. We all certainly hope something will happen, but we should not be distraught if nothing happens. We just need to keep pushing instead of talking on a defeatist attitude due to setting wrong expectations out of one single rally.
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rockstart
02-12 08:02 AM
I think he is just trying to scare you. There is no way he can sue your for his losses. Evey employer has an insurance against his employees in case there is any mistake by his employee this insurance covers it. He cannot prepare any case against him so just tell him to shut up and go to hell.
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chanduv23
07-08 04:46 PM
I dont think we could expect such thing from our community as we are born selfish and scared of things. Everone is just hoping that some miracle will happen and everyone will get their GCs. Or else people are happy with EAD/h1b renewals.We really lack the kind of leadership and atitude we had before independece both at home in india and here.I think people have made immigration problems as part of the many problems they have in their lives.
Well, even before Indian independence, it was just a handful of population that were actively involved in the process, majority took life as it came and were afraid. In fact, there are a lot of coward stories where cowards helped the British against freedom fighters. The reason British could rule India so easily because desis are submissive and it took a long time for leaders like Mahatma Gandhi to lay a foundation and gather critical mass enought o bring about a change and the worst thing is - the only change that happened was that British govt moved out. 60 years after independence, we are still divided mentality, lack of civic sense, we claim greaatness in getting IT and BPO projects, we could not win a gold medal in Olympics nor could we make any big scientific achievement - the worst thing is we come here to US and stay divided and expect that someone will do good to us
Well, even before Indian independence, it was just a handful of population that were actively involved in the process, majority took life as it came and were afraid. In fact, there are a lot of coward stories where cowards helped the British against freedom fighters. The reason British could rule India so easily because desis are submissive and it took a long time for leaders like Mahatma Gandhi to lay a foundation and gather critical mass enought o bring about a change and the worst thing is - the only change that happened was that British govt moved out. 60 years after independence, we are still divided mentality, lack of civic sense, we claim greaatness in getting IT and BPO projects, we could not win a gold medal in Olympics nor could we make any big scientific achievement - the worst thing is we come here to US and stay divided and expect that someone will do good to us
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alex77
06-18 07:47 PM
Here you go...
http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/30/tal-trips-skilled-immigrants-to-us.htmhttp://business.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/30/tal-trips-skilled-immigrants-to-us.htm
Here is some thing i got through googling, though a poor choice but worth to post (http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/h1b-visa-stamping-us-consulates-delayed/).
As i remember , i read a north indian chap 15 years of experience and has phd, stuck in chennai or mumbai on security check, trying to find the article.
http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/30/tal-trips-skilled-immigrants-to-us.htmhttp://business.rediff.com/report/2009/mar/30/tal-trips-skilled-immigrants-to-us.htm
Here is some thing i got through googling, though a poor choice but worth to post (http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/h1b-visa-stamping-us-consulates-delayed/).
As i remember , i read a north indian chap 15 years of experience and has phd, stuck in chennai or mumbai on security check, trying to find the article.
more...
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Siboo
07-27 04:22 PM
Do this - Hire a homeless person, give him a VOIP phone with unlimited calling minutes, and ask him to call USCIS every second of his life asking for your recipt. Some day you will get the good news. If you hire 10 homeless and give all of them this job then you might qualify for "investor green card"!!
Guys....please say....well said (pat on my own back)
Well Said Kumar, Keep it up :mad: :mad:
Guys....please say....well said (pat on my own back)
Well Said Kumar, Keep it up :mad: :mad:
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bbct
06-19 10:44 AM
Check your PM. This is what i sent.
Could you please share the letter? I am also looking for a sample format.
Thanks
Could you please share the letter? I am also looking for a sample format.
Thanks
more...
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gcsim
06-05 09:33 AM
For all Eb3s along with EB2s with PD after April 2005, the movement in the coming visa bulletins wont be much encoraging unless the new Obama government does something significant about employent based category or immigrationvoice does a fruitful lobbying. The doings of something by obama government to employment based category is not in our hands. The only thing we could do is to help IV and help ourrselves by contributing to it to reach its financial target for better lobbying. Or else wait for the Visa Bulletin every month with great hopes, sorry dreams, for your PD to become current, and satisfy with your EADs for years ahead
Just a query how did you came up with the date of April 2005.
Just a query how did you came up with the date of April 2005.
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texcan
01-11 05:48 PM
1) Try state group insurance
Texas and for that matter every state has a group insurance coverage for folks
who donot get coverage from any other insurance provider.
This is a coverage that you will get for sure, only document you will need is a written paper from insurance company that one cant be insured.
Check the state insurance board website.
2) check free clinics, these clinics will provide complete care ( you can pay them if you like)if you dont thats fine too. I suggest paying them if you can even if its a bit high, as someone who cant afford may one day get to use this service too.
3) Ask yours employer's insurance agent, group insurances gurantee insurance.
Donot worry, life works in interesting ways. As last resort one can go to home country for delivery.
donot worry.
Texas and for that matter every state has a group insurance coverage for folks
who donot get coverage from any other insurance provider.
This is a coverage that you will get for sure, only document you will need is a written paper from insurance company that one cant be insured.
Check the state insurance board website.
2) check free clinics, these clinics will provide complete care ( you can pay them if you like)if you dont thats fine too. I suggest paying them if you can even if its a bit high, as someone who cant afford may one day get to use this service too.
3) Ask yours employer's insurance agent, group insurances gurantee insurance.
Donot worry, life works in interesting ways. As last resort one can go to home country for delivery.
donot worry.
more...
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webm
06-05 11:17 AM
What is the effectivity date of this memo?
May 30th or June 1st?
See this..from immigration-law.com
However, the release of this new supplemental AC-21 probably implies that the rule-making agenda may be pushed off and may not be enacted this year. Please stay tuned.
May 30th or June 1st?
See this..from immigration-law.com
However, the release of this new supplemental AC-21 probably implies that the rule-making agenda may be pushed off and may not be enacted this year. Please stay tuned.
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raydon
10-12 03:03 AM
Looking at the movement of dates for EB3, esp India and China, it's hard to be optimistic of any changes. It's a very wretched position to be in for Indian and Chinese nationality, if they're in EB3. All those who are eligible to port will definitely try to port to EB2 as long as it's available and cut their waiting time. It might be risky and unpredictable, but it's a risk worth taking considering the endless torture in the form of a long wait and zero or little forward movement of dates.
There've been times when I've felt like attempting porting, but am not sure of the reaction of my employer - a big "reputed" company. If they revoke the I-140 in retaliation for using AC-21, then no chance of porting and back to square one. So it's the seemingly endless wait for me just like all others suffering from 2001 onwards. If only I'd not hesitated to take a bold step back in 2003. Too late to lament about that though.
There've been times when I've felt like attempting porting, but am not sure of the reaction of my employer - a big "reputed" company. If they revoke the I-140 in retaliation for using AC-21, then no chance of porting and back to square one. So it's the seemingly endless wait for me just like all others suffering from 2001 onwards. If only I'd not hesitated to take a bold step back in 2003. Too late to lament about that though.
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goimg
11-18 11:00 PM
EAD, AP Received
lost_in_migration
05-29 04:40 PM
Genocide is what is left maybe
They will make H1b visa holders wears arm bands like the Nazis made jews wear . Then they will make us live in ghettos and drive us out all at once . :( How much worse can this get .
They will make H1b visa holders wears arm bands like the Nazis made jews wear . Then they will make us live in ghettos and drive us out all at once . :( How much worse can this get .
spdy_mn
10-21 02:32 PM
I understand.
I once asked about a soft lud and I was given red dot. The reason given was
"quit asking about soft luds". They could have said that in the thread instead of giving me red dots :confused:
I once asked about a soft lud and I was given red dot. The reason given was
"quit asking about soft luds". They could have said that in the thread instead of giving me red dots :confused:
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